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 how to make a live axle car handle better
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| Author | Topic |
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| Piers Taylor Deity Location: Bath | Posted - 27 March 2004 20:51    
Other than fitting the Caterham supplied bilstein kit, are there any other popular mods for making (Ital) Live axle cars handle/ride better?Old very noisy BRG 1760 x flow, cycle wings and minilites |
| tricky dicky Anyone got a sock? Location: Preston, Lancs | Posted - 27 March 2004 21:19
Piers, Me again, we seem to have the very same problems. Using my car mainly on A & B Roads one up with plans for the odd track day. I have chatted to a lot of 7eveners and they advised on the following:- 1. Dampers & Springs My car runs on standard spax adjustable dampers (with the small screw at the base of the damper) with standard springs (close coils). These are the original fitting so could be past their sell by date by now. The dampers adjust clockwise for harder ride and anti clockwise for softer, I have experimented with this and prefer a softest setting, the car is less bouncy and the axle is not "jumping up and down quite so much. 2. Tyres My car was on the original rubber - 8 years old so I have just fitted Yokohama o21's from George Polley Motorsport on the recommendation of local club members and this has improved feel of the car, tried running at 17psi which seems very low but made the car feel much less "jumpy and twitchy around bends. 3,. Talked to Mick and John @ Redline they do a number of tweaks for Live axled cars and can recommend a De Dion spring set up which apparently can improve the handling and ride of the car. 4. I've taken the plunge and gone to Freestyle @ Brands Hatch, Len Unwin has advised me on a set up for Road and Track use which has fully adjustable dampers and stiffer springs, these you run on the road in full soft mode but can turn up a few clicks for track or pressing on, they are simple to adjust without a screw driver and he tells me will transform the car, time will tell! Regards Richard |
| Piers Taylor Deity Location: Bath | Posted - 28 March 2004 7:33
Thanks Richard. I'm going to go down the upgraded spring and damper route too. On the road I always have the current Spax on softest too. I vaguely remember hearing that there was a rose jointed A frame commection available in lieu of the bush, which made a difference... Old very noisy BRG 1760 x flow, cycle wings and minilites |
| nigelriches Anyone got a sock? Location: Kirwee, Canterbury. Membership No 7318, since 1983 | Posted - 28 March 2004 10:15
I have an "A" frame with Rose joint, it does reduce the slack from the rubber bushes normally installed but I don't think the location is noticeable improved, as there are the bushes at the lower end of the shock absorbers and at the forward end of the "A" frame, the advantage of the Rose joint is the greater distance between replacements, especially if the axle has a leak, Rose joints are expensive, and a different "A" is required, but if you don't want to be under the rear axle every 1500 miles it's worth it, best regards Nigel. 1982. 5 speed, clamshells. B.R.G / Ali. The True Colours. |
| JonP Archangel Location: Sydney, Australia | Posted - 28 March 2004 10:48
Hi Folks, Agree with Nigel on the A frame, worth doing. Seems the tyre sidewall height and stiffness has a lot of influence, I had a live axle car with 185/60 14 on it and the thing was dangerous...slightest ripple in the road and the back end would go very rapidly! 185/65 14 made it much better, 185/70 13 (ie the original fitment for live axles, better still. JonP No longer Sevenless....! |
| Piers Taylor Deity Location: Bath | Posted - 29 March 2004 8:04
Where do I get the rose joint? Old very noisy BRG 1760 x flow, cycle wings and minilites |
| Casbar blah, blah, blah... Location: Job Centre | Posted - 29 March 2004 8:30
You can also fit Leda dampers (can buy from James Whitting or direct from Leda) they are adj and have spherical joints at the rear. Fit the adjust twin wishbone and new anti roll bar on the front. Use 185/70 Yoko 21Rs. My car handles very well after the above upgrades  |
| Baby Bucket Deity Location: Towing a Large Green Shed | Posted - 29 March 2004 8:32
Morning All How to make your live axle car handle better. Try the following: 1. Decent tyres - often overlooked, but probably the biggest difference (I use 32Rs) 2. A rose jointed a-frame, does help but mostly because you no longer have to replace the rubber A-frame bushes after every track day. NB this is a different A-frame, you cannot just replace the bush with a rose-joint. 3. Decent shocks which have a rose-jointed bottom end - these provent the damper from binding. I use LEDAs which are good but heavy. 4. A rear anti-roll bar - yes is can be done, makes the world of difference, but does require (modest) chassis mods (Ratrace did mine) 5. Keep the rear springing fairly soft - I use 130lb springs (300 lb on the front) and the car does a lot of track work. I previously ran 110lb springs. You keep the roll in check with the anti-roll bar. 6. Fit Quaiff LSD. 7. If the front wishbone is held using the front anti-roll bar as part of the top link then consider replacing with the de-dion wishbone. (there have been many seperate posts on doing this) 8. Fit aluminium hubs (not really necessary, but keeps the unsprung weight down). 9. Fit James Whiting's rear disk conversion kit. 10. Fit Alcon calipers to front. The above should make a live axle car handle pretty well. If anyone is at Cadwell and wants to take a good look at Baby B., then you are very welcome. Finally to make it go like it handles - get Rob Morley (Protune) to build a nice 165 bhp x/flow motor  Hope this helps, Peter |
| Ferrino blah, blah, blah... Location: Wiltshire/San Diego | Posted - 29 March 2004 13:37
BB - what profile 32Rs are you ruuning on your LA? I bought the car with 195/50/15 Yoko A539s and have just bought some 13"x6" Minators - would like to try 32Rs, but unsure which profile is best? Aesthetically, I don't think I'll be able to tolerate 70 sidewalls, so is 60 OK? Predominantly road use ATM. |
| philwaters Yawn..... Location: Reading, Berkshire | Posted - 29 March 2004 13:44
I run 60's on my LA. The sidewalls are about as stiff as they come, and you do notice it, although only in the ride really, not had any problems with jumping off bumps. I've not seen 70's, but you get them as 021's which have softer sidewalls as well. My next tires will either be 70 021's or some CR500's which are lighter and stickier than 21's. Not much help am I  Phil Waters |
| Baby Bucket Deity Location: Towing a Large Green Shed | Posted - 29 March 2004 13:52
Ferrino, I use 185 x 60 on the front and 205 x 55 (?) on the rear - which are on 7" rims. When its wet I use 185 x 70 21Rs on 6" rims. Hope this helps, Peter |
| Ferrino blah, blah, blah... Location: Wiltshire/San Diego | Posted - 29 March 2004 23:01
Thanks chaps. I was also thinking about CR500s for extra safety in standing water and reducing unsprung weight, although they are pricier, aren't they? My new wheels are 6" wide all round and I was considering going 175/55/13 - would these be too puny for rears? Engine is about 160 BHP - thought I read that rear tyre width is only really important in 180+BHP Sevens though.... Also, what's the widest tyre you can safely fit on a 6" wide rim? Cheers |
| Tony7 I ought to get out more Location: North Yorkshire | Posted - 29 March 2004 23:38
Peter (Baby Bucket) I am running most of the mods you suggested except in the braking department and not running rose jointed rear shocks but have done all the other mods. I have about 200bhp out of my Zetec and hopefully should be running at Cadwell (I am on the reserve list, but live in hope). I am currently on a weight reduction program both me AND the car. My choice of tyres are 021r's for the wet, acb10's or slicks for the dry. Would be great to compare notes. Regards Tony |
| simon redshaw Anorak Location: Cheshire | Posted - 29 March 2004 23:56
A cheaper mod for the rear a-frame is to fit polyurethane bushes. These can be purchased in several forms to suit the hardness of the ride. They are not effected by oil and last for years! i am running Freestyle Avo's and will go poly-bushes on my new English axle (lovely Axle build by Steve at SP Components). Have rear discs (with bias adjustment) and have changed to de-deon front hubs/ford centres (helps). Good brakes at the front will also assist handling - 4 pots needed to suite more power. Also increased wheel diameters - 13X6 Front and 13X7 rear. Good tyres a must, particularly as I am now running an XE 2.0 ltre lump! Good luck with your mods. Simon |
| barry.h Anorak Location: Warwick | Posted - 30 March 2004 13:33
Tony and/or Peter, Can you describe please the mounting points for the rear ARB and where they are - both on the axle and on the chassis? I am trying to envisage how it would be fitted and am failing miserably. Cheers, Barry |
| Baby Bucket Deity Location: Towing a Large Green Shed | Posted - 30 March 2004 22:15
Barry, The rear anti-roll bar is underslung behind the axle. It uses adjustable drop links from the brackets on the Ital axle and has mounting brazed onto the chassis. Hope this helps, in a week or two I could take some digital pictures - drop me an email with your details if this is of any use (the reason for the delay - I managed to leave my digital camera at a friends house at the weekend (doh !)). Tony, Yes it would be good to compare notes ! I have now run Baby B for 6 years and it has evolved from a 1.6 Classis SE over that period. I am now considering using Nitron shocks (double adjustable with a remote reservoir). Simon, I considered using polyurethane bushes - but the rose jointed A frame wasn't that expensive (£50 ?) and I did have some concerns about the way the poly bushes would cope with the up and down and roll movements of the centre of the axle. I also have a bias adjustment on the rear disks. Did you have to make any chassis mods to fit the Ford axle? Cheers, Peter |
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how to make a live axle car handle better
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